Posts Tagged middle-grade fiction

WNDMG Author Interview with Elle McNicoll

WNDMG Author Interview with Elle McNicoll

My reading sweet spot is MG fantasy, so give me dragons, witches, spells, and curses any day of the week. Like A Curse by Elle McNicoll delivered on them all, plus more including a new creature I haven’t read about before! 

I had the esteemed pleasure of sitting down to interview Elle. Here’s the inside scoop on both the author and her book…

About the Author

Elle McNicoll is a bestselling and award-winning novelist. Her debut, A Kind of Spark, was a Schneider Family Honor title, an overall winner of the Waterstones Children’s Book Prize, and a Blackwell’s Book of the Year. She has been nominated for the Carnegie Medal and was shortlisted for the Books Are My Bag Readers Awards, the Branford Boase Award, and the Little Rebels Children’s Book Award. Her second novel, Show Us Who You Are, was a Blackwell’s Book of the Month title and one of the Bookseller’s Best Book of the year. She is an advocate for better representation of neurodiversity in publishing and currently lives in London.

Interview with Elle McNicoll

Kate: Our Mixed-Up-Files readers would love the inside scoop on book 2 in your Like a Charm series. Can you tell us a bit about neurodivergent tween Rayma and her role in becoming a witch?

Elle: Ramya is a witch in training. She’s a little too emotional when it comes to her magic and, while a lot of fantasy heroes need to be convinced that they’re the chosen one, Ramya needs people to remind her that she can’t do everything by herself.

Kate: Beyond casting spells, there are other magical abilities to read about in your book as well. I absolutely love the notion of Glamour! This one’s new to me. Is this something you created? And, if I were to go about daydreaming this was my magical power, what are the rules around using it?
Elle: I wish!! Glamour is a fae creation, and it’s popular in Scottish mythology. It’s a kind of disguise, and Ramya is lucky (or unlucky) in that she can see through it. The rules of glamour are fairly simple. It can turn you into anything to just about anyone. It’s like a magical filter. It helps you edit or reinvent yourself.

Kate: Let’s talk setting. Edinburgh has been on my bucket list for years, so I thank you for bringing it to life for me! How important was it for you to place your story inside a real world vs a created one?
Elle: So important. As a Scot, I want the kids I write for to touch the places in the book. I’ve done a few sold out walking tours in Edinburgh and the kids adore being able to take pictures in the real locations.
Kate: Rayma comes into contact with many interesting creatures such as Hidden Folk – Hulders, Blue Men, selkies, and kelpies – just to name a few. When choosing who to add to your storyline, were any of these mythological creatures based on research? Or do they stem from part of your cultural folklore?
Elle: They’re all part of my culture, in stories that have been handed down. I liked using childhood memories of Scotland to craft the world Ramya lives in.
Kate: It’s often fun to read about the baddies of a book, and Portia is certainly up there on that list! How fun is it for you to write the antagonist?
Elle: It’s fun! I like her. There’s lots about her to like. And she’s got a big wound, one that’s much more personal than her enemies realise. I love that!
Kate: Other important characters include many of Rayma’s family members. In what ways do these multiple generations impact how you developed Rayma as a character?
Elle: I love the whole wild bunch. I like the three sisters, I think that’s such a witchy number. They’re all sort of a coven, and their disapproval of Ramya’s impulsivity make the dynamics fun to write. She feels like a bad witch compared to her aunts.
Kate: You and Rayma share many things in common, I’m sure, one in particular is dyspraxia. Can you tell MUF readers about dyspraxia and how this connection to Rayma helped you in your story development?
Elle: Dyspraxia is a learning difficulty that can impact coordination, balance, processing and memory. Amongst many other things. I wanted Ramya to be dyspraxic, like me. I’m also autistic. I thought a neurodivergent witch would be fun. Also, ND kids are forced to be really resilient so we make good protagonists, I think.
Kate: Like a Curse leaves readers with such a great message. Without revealing spoilers, can you describe your writing process: in organizing your duology, did you have this ending for book two in mind when you set out to write book one? And, can you give us an example of something you cut, changed, or reworked from draft to publication?
Elle: I knew I wanted to see Ramya and Opal’s relationship develop in Like a Curse and I wanted more of Portia. Everything was planned, I didn’t need to make big cuts. It was enough stories for a tight duology and I’m glad it panned out that way.
Kate: You write for multiple age ranges. Do you set out knowing before you write a book whether it will be MG or YA? And for Like a Curse in particular, how did you nail that MG voice?
Elle: I always know which age the book is for, usually because the main character’s age dictates it. It’s important to know, I think. I remember being 12. It’s very close to my mind at all times, so it’s easy to get back in those shoes.
Kate: Thank you for taking the time to share the inside scoop on Like a Curse. Is there something beyond Rayma’s world you can hint at? Perhaps a new project in the works?
Elle: I’ll be writing witches again. Without a doubt!
Kate: Where can readers best find you if they want to reach out?
Elle: @ellemcnicollofficial on Instagram
Or ellemcnicoll.com

And of course, no MUF interview is complete without a lightning round, so…

Favorite place to write? At home.Dark chocolate or milk chocolate? White chocolate.

Superpower? Glamour

Rollerblades or bike? Neither, I’m dyspraxic.

Dream job when you were a kid? This.

House pet? My dog, Cheeseburger.

Favorite piece of advice? Take the work seriously, but not yourself. And if you’re different from the herd, you gotta be tough.

Use Four Acts to Get Through the Murky Middle

Focus on the Midpoint

When I outline a novel or graphic novel, I love to reference Save the Cat. If you’re not familiar with this plotting method, it’s based on screenplays and breaks a movie into Act 1 (the first 25% of the book), Act 2 (the next 50%), and Act 3 (the last 25%).

I more or less stick to this, except I put even more emphasis on the midpoint.

A strong midpoint not only gives the reader a high-impact scene to break up the long slog of the middle, but it’s a great chance to change up gears. In fact, I try to make this moment so huge that it effectively breaks that long Act 2 into two acts, so each of the four acts is 25% of the book.*

Act=Goal

To do that, I think of each act as a goal for the MC. Act=goal.

So, in a sense, the flow of a novel could look like this:

  • Act 1: the MC is pursuing a goal, one that makes sense for their ordinary world. Then a catalyst happens to either put that goal in jeopardy or catapult it forward.
  • Act 2: Reacting to that catalyst, the MC sets forth to achieve a new goal. Then another catalyst happens (the Midpoint) that either puts that goal in jeopardy or catapults it forward.
  • Act 3: repeat, bringing us to the All is Lost moment, which is the catalyst for the last act.
  • Act 4: reacting to the All is Lost, the MC makes a final goal.

Sometimes the catalyst in each act is subtle. Sometimes it’s an accumulation of things learned in the act up to that point. Sometimes it’s huge, like a bombshell of information. Whatever it is, each catalyst prevents the MC from continuing to pursue the goal that they are currently on; they have to change gears.

Examples

Star Wars

Let’s look at how this works in Star Wars: A New Hope.

Act 1

  • Goal: Set up droids on the farm.
  • Catalyst: Ben Kenobi asks Luke to go with him to Alderaan and Luke’s aunt and uncle are killed, making his Act 1 goal of getting the droids set up on the farm irrelevant.

Act 2

  • Goal: Get the plans to Alderaan.
  • Catalyst: The Death Star blows up Alderaan and captures the Millennium Falcon.
image from Star Wars: A New Hope. Standing behind Han Solo, Obi Wan looks tense, gazing at something in front of them, saying "That's no moon."

Our Star Wars heroes are about to discover that they cannot achieve their Act 2 goal.

Act 3

  • Goal: Rescue the princess from the Death Star
  • Catalyst: They escape, but the Death Star follows them to the hidden rebel base.

Act 4

  • Goal: Destroy the Death Star to save the rebel base.
  • Result: Luke destroys the Death Star.

Other Examples

Movies:

  • Raiders of the Lost Ark (this goal shift is huge, as Indy’s goal goes from finding the Ark to getting it back from the Nazis; in fact, the entire second half of the movie is Indy trying to get and keep the Ark from the Nazis)
  • Monsters, Inc. (this is subtle, but Sully switches from wanting to save his career to wanting to save Boo, a goal shift that causes conflict with Mike)
  • Lion King
  • Up

Books: The Last Mapmaker and A Wish in the Dark by Christina Soontornvat are great examples of the main character’s goal shifting in at the midpoint.

Does It Really Matter?

I don’t think it matters to the reader whether you outline your story with a goal change in the middle, as long as the story moves along. But as the writer, I find splitting up that long middle to be incredibly helpful for getting through the murky middle. Basically, it’s chunking up a huge task into two more manageably sized tasks.

For example, imagine you’re writing Star Wars. Woud it be easier to plot if you had a list of goals for Luke that were:

  1. Set up droids on the farm
  2. Get plans to the rebel alliance
  3. Destroy the Death Star and save the rebels

Or:

  1. Set up droids on the farm
  2. Get plans to Alderaan
  3. Rescue the rebel princess and escape to the rebel base
  4. Destroy the Death Star and save the rebels

You could interpret Star Wars either way, but personally, I would find the second to be much easier to build a story around. The specificity helps me to keep the middle of the book moving along. It would give me something more concrete to write toward.

I can think of many stories that do not approach the Midpoint this way. (I can think of many that don’t even really have a Midpoint shift). But if you’re stuck in the murky middle, try breaking that long Act 2 into two goals, and give each a catalyst that disrupts that goal.

*For more information on four-act stories, click here to read about Joyce Sweeney’s plot clock.

Author Spotlight: Mixed-Up Files Member Lisa Schmid

It’s always a pleasure to shine the Author Spotlight on a fellow Mixed-Up Files member, so I’m thrilled to chat with my friend and fellow MG author Lisa Schmid! Lisa’s sophomore MG novel, Hart & Souls, about an anxious middle schooler with a ghost problem, is out now from Andrews McMeel Publishing.

And now, without further ado…

Interview with Lisa Schmid

Melissa: Welcome, Lisa! So glad to have you here today.

Lisa: Thank you so much! I always love hanging out with you at the Mixed-Up Files.

About Hart & Souls

Melissa: The last time we chatted, back in October 2023, it was in conjunction with the cover reveal for your second MG novel, Hart & Souls (you can read the interview here). To refresh readers’ memories, what is the premise of the book? Also, how did you come up with the idea?

Lisa: Stix Hart wants to avoid trouble at his new middle school, but his first day brings ghostly encounters that push his anxiety to the limit. He meets three spirits who have been trapped for decades and need his help to move on. To free them, Stix must confront his fears to solve this paranormal predicament.

The idea for Hart & Souls came to me after encountering the local bully at Target. He was on the phone at the front of the store, frightened and crying. After eavesdropping, I learned no one had picked him up from school, and he didn’t know where else to go. I could tell from the conversation this was a regular occurrence.

It told me a lot about why he was acting up at school. I’ve always believed that when somebody behaves unkindly, it usually means they’re fighting a battle we know nothing about. At that moment, I knew I had my next book.

Writing a story about three ghosts with unfinished business allowed me to explore different backstories of kids and how it impacted their lives. And just as important, how their actions affected others.

Overcoming Anxiety

Melissa: The main character, Stix, a talented drummer, was the target of bullying at his previous school. Because of this, he starts middle school with a great deal of trepidation and anxiety. Can you tell us how Stix’s anxiety manifests itself, and what he does to cope with it?

Lisa: Stix is dealing with some fairly intense anxiety as a result of a bullying incident in the third grade. As a result, he suffers from panic attacks when something triggers this memory. It can be a sight, sound, or even a casual glance.

To manage his anxiety, he focuses on music beats to give his brain something else to think about. This coping mechanism is a technique I learned about after speaking with a psychologist while doing research for the book.

Bang a Drum!

Melissa: As above, Stix is a talented drummer. Is this something you have in common with him, or did you have to do extensive research to familiarize yourself?

Lisa: I knew from the start that music would be the underlying theme. I’ve always wanted to be a drummer but never had the patience to pick up the sticks. My son is a musician, so I asked his guitar/drum teacher for advice about playing the drums.

Melissa: Let’s switch gears and talk about the spooky side of the novel. Ghosts are involved, of course. Can you elaborate?

Lisa: Yes! *rubs hands together with glee* I love writing about ghosts because there are no rules. I get to make them up as I go. They are also the perfect sidekicks, providing situations that often lead to funny and heartfelt moments.

I tend to shy away from the super spooky themes. To be honest, that’s not my jam. I wish I could spin a spine-tingling horror story, but I think I would end up throwing in a farting ghost just to lighten the mood. Best to stay in my goofy lane. I have lots of fun there.

Lessons Learned from My Partner the Ghost

Melissa: Your debut novel, Ollie Oxley and the Ghost, was spooky as well. Have you always been drawn to the supernatural? Also, what is it about ghosts that fascinates you?

Lisa: When I was around nine, my favorite show was a British TV series called My Partner the Ghost. It was about a pair of private detectives in London. In the pilot, one gets killed, comes back as a ghost, and helps his partner solve crimes. I’ve been obsessed ever since with the idea of friendly ghosts. It’s brilliant, and I love it to this day! It was my inspiration for Ollie Oxley and the Ghost.

(P.S. You can watch the pilot episode on YouTube.)

Literary Easter Eggs

Melissa: Hart & Souls contains several “Easter eggs,” aka little surprises for eagle-eyed readers to find. Without giving too much away, can you tell us about some of your favorites?

Lisa: There’s actually only one Easter egg in Hart & Souls, but I love it! You will easily find this fun little nugget if you have read Ollie Oxley and The Ghost. Many folks have emailed or commented on a social media post when they see it.

Fun side note: The Chronicles of Narnia are my favorite books of all time. I usually drop in a reference that fellow Narnians will catch. You can look for those as well.

Plotter Versus Pantser

Melissa: Switching gears again, what does your writing routine look like? Also, are you a plotter or a pantser?

Lisa: I am a card-carrying member of the Pantser Society. I always know how a story will begin and end, but I never know what will happen in between. I write all my books chapter by chapter. The idea that people can plot a story is magical. I don’t possess that extraordinary talent. This process makes me a painfully slow writer because I have to figure things out as I go. I also edit along the way . . . I can’t help myself. (grimace face)

Path to Publication

Melissa: Can you tell us about your path to publication? Smooth sailing or a meandering path? Also, what advice would you give to wannabe MG authors?

Lisa: Meandering and full of potholes!

I did not land an agent with Ollie Oxley and the Ghost. As a matter of fact, I only got one request for a full and one personalized rejection. Otherwise, it was crickets. I got my first book deal via a Twitter kidlit pitch party. I received one “like,” and it was from my wonderful editor.

I eventually caught the interest of my fantastic agent, Leslie Zampetti, with a chapter book series about a crime-solving pug with a goldfish sidekick. Unfortunately, it has not sold . . . yet, but I’m still holding out hope that an editor will one day give Bumble & Beans their forever home.

This is a cleaned-up version of my path to publication. My journey was riddled with mishaps and missteps. I was a hot mess. But the trick is to keep plugging away and learn from your mistakes.

For the record, my fastest rejection turn-around was ten minutes. I have yet to meet anyone who can beat that time. 🙂

Melissa: Actually, I can. I once got a rejection in FOUR minutes! How the agent had time to read my query and reject it so quickly remains a mystery!

Lisa: 😂

Writers with Wrinkles

Melissa: In addition to being a writer of middle-grade fiction, you’re also the co-host of the popular podcast, Writers with Wrinkles. How do you juggle these different roles?

Lisa: I don’t think we had any idea how much time and effort goes into creating a podcast, but it’s been worth it.

The first three years, we ran four episodes a month. It was a lot of work between recording and promoting while still focusing on our individual projects. But we love serving the writing community and want everyone to succeed!

We switched to twice-monthly episodes, making our schedules slightly more manageable. We also changed our format. Once a month, we host an “Ask Beth & Lisa” segment in which listeners can send in questions. For our second episode, we interview editors or agents. I feel like we have found our groove and are making the most of our time while still packing in valuable tips for our listeners.

Our editor/agent chats are the best! I have learned so much about publishing and the querying process from our guests. Information I wish I had known when I started my publishing journey. I encourage querying writers to give them a listen.

Up Next…

Melissa: What are you working on now, Lisa? Can you give Mixed-Up Files readers a sneak peek?

Lisa: I am just finishing a middle-grade adventure. This book does not involve ghosts, but it does have ghost towns. It’s a time-traveling tale with some epic twists and turns. It’s been a challenge to write due to the different timelines. More than once, I’ve woken up in the middle of the night with the horrifying realization that I had a major plot hole. Fortunately, I believe I have plugged every last one. (Fingers crossed)

Lightning Round

Melissa: No MUF interview is complete without a lightning round, so…

Preferred writing snack? Potato Chips

Coffee or tea? Coffee

Ghosts: Real or imaginary? Real

Superpower? Empathy

Favorite place on earth? Cotswolds

If you were stranded on a desert island with only three things, what would they be? My pug, Lucy, for company; The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe to read; and a cozy blanket to keep us warm

Melissa: Many thanks for joining us today, Lisa! As always, it was a treat to have you here!

Lisa: Thank you so much! I had a blast. As usual . . . You always ask the best questions.

Bio

Lisa Schmid is an author, a stay-at-home-mom, and co-host of the podcast Writers With Wrinkles. When she’s not scaring up ghostly adventures, she’s most likely visiting schools to talk about writing and books. She lives in Northern California with her husband, son, two dogs, and one very sneaky hamster. Learn more about Lisa on her website and follow her on Twitter and Instagram.

Melissa Roske is a writer of middle-grade fiction. Before spending her days with imaginary people, she interviewed real ones as a journalist in Europe. In London she landed a job as an advice columnist for Just Seventeen magazine. Upon returning to her native New York, Melissa contributed to several books and magazines, selected jokes for Reader’s Digest, and received certification as a life coach from NYU. In addition to her debut novel Kat Greene Comes Clean (Charlesbridge), Melissa’s short story “Grandma Merle’s Last Wish” appears in the Jewish middle-grade anthology, Coming of Age: 13 B’Nai Mitzvah Stories (Albert Whitman). Learn more about Melissa on her Website and follow her on  TwitterFacebook, and Instagram.