Editor / Agent Spotlight

Interview with Stephanie Lurie, Editorial Director of the Rick Riordan Presents imprint at Disney-Hyperion!

Hello Mixed-Up Filers!

Are we in for a treat! A few years ago, I was fortunate enough to meet Stephanie Lurie at a Florida SCBWI conference, as well as take a workshop she was giving. Besides being extremely informative, she couldn’t have been nicer.

If you don’t know her, she’s the Editorial Director of the Rick Riordan Presents imprint at Disney-Hyperion, and I’m thrilled to feature her in the Editor Spotlight!

Hi Stephanie, thanks for joining us today!

JR: You’ve had a long, successful career in publishing. Could you tell us a little bit about your path to becoming an editor, and eventually working for Disney-Hyperion?

SL: Being a children’s book editor was a career choice I made very early on. When I was fifteen, a local bookstore owner asked me to review a book a townsperson had written for young adults. As I read the book, I thought, “Too bad this woman doesn’t know how kids really think.” It was an “aha!” moment for me: I could help authors make their books stronger. I’m not even sure how I knew such a job existed. . . .

I went on to be a creative writing major at Oberlin College, and during the first semester of my senior year, I had an internship for college credit at Dodd, Mead and Company in New York (a publishing house that was ultimately acquired by Thomas Nelson Books). My experience working for a children’s book editor at Dodd, Mead proved to me that I had found my calling. Dodd, Mead offered me a job after college–for a whopping $8,000 a year!–in sales promotion and customer service. I learned a lot, but I wanted to get back to children’s editorial. I jumped over to Little, Brown, where I grew up from editorial assistant to senior editor over twelve years. After that I ran the imprint Simon & Schuster Books for Young Readers for six years. My next stint was as president and publisher of Dutton Children’s books at Penguin. In my ninth year there, a friend of mine who was working at Disney Hyperion talked me into applying for an editorial director job by saying, “How would you like to do what you are doing at Dutton but not have any other imprints competing for marketing and publicity attention?” That sounded pretty good to me, and over the past decade there I have enjoyed being part of a boutique publisher within a huge entertainment company.


JR: That’s some exciting journey! What was the first book you worked on?

SL: I had a generous boss at Little, Brown who allowed me to “cut my teeth” on manuscripts by their top authors at the time, such as Lois Duncan, Ellen Conford, and Matt Christopher. One of the first authors I acquired was Neal Shusterman, who has gone on to be a New York Times bestseller and a National Book Award winner with other editors.

JR: When you first saw The Lightning Thief, what about it appealed to you so much?

SL: Rick Riordan’s first middle grade novel, The Lightning Thief, was acquired at auction before my time at Disney. Rick chose to go with Miramax Books, which eventually became part of Disney-Hyperion. Jennifer Besser (now at Macmillan) edited the Percy Jackson and the Olympians series. I took over as Rick’s editor after she left, picking up on the Kane Chronicles trilogy. I was amazed by how he made ancient Egyptian mythology relevant to modern readers with exciting adventure, relatable characters, a healthy dose of humor, and a breakneck pace. He makes it look easy.

JR: What’s changed in publishing between the time you started and now?

SL: What hasn’t? I’m so old (How old are you?), I pre-date office computers! Yes, we had to type on Selectrics, using carbon paper. The biggest changes have come from: corporate buy-outs of family-owned companies, which necessitated more attention to the bottom line; the rise of chain bookstores; the Harry Potter phenomenon, which brought hardcover fiction back from the brink of death; the importance of social media in author promotion; Amazon’s dominance; and today, more focus on diversity.

JR: I grew up doing all my reports on typewriters. Slightly easier now. And by the way, I could’ve sworn I heard Gene Rayburn say the “I’m so old” part before you answered (How old are you?) But back to the interview. Disney has recently acquired a lot of new properties. Does that mean anything for the publishing division?

SL: Disney now encompasses several premiere brands, such as Pixar, Marvel, Star Wars, and Fox Entertainment. We can publish against all of these brands, from straight movie tie-ins to extension books that tell new stories based on the characters from the movies. It also means that there is more opportunity for intercompany synergy for authors writing their own IP (intellectual property).

JR: What do you enjoy the most about your job?

SL: I’m having a blast helping Rick curate the Rick Riordan Presents line of middle grade fiction by under-represented authors who want to write stories about their own cultures’ folklore and mythology. I send him submissions to consider, acquire the projects we agree on, edit the manuscripts, and collaborate with my colleagues on book design and promotion.

JR: All that sounds like a tremendous amount of fun. What sort of books do you look for?

SL: For Rick Riordan Presents, we want the same qualities that make Rick’s own books so popular, because the imprint was created to satisfy his fans’ craving for adventure based on mythology. We look for a funny, snarky teenage voice; a fast pace; an exciting, high-stakes plot; and a likeable but flawed protagonist who grows over the course of the story.

JR: The kinds of books I love! Are you very hands-on with your authors?

SL: I’ve always enjoyed helping writers bring out their story by asking pointed questions and making suggestions to improve logic, flow, and clarity. For the Rick Riordan Presents authors, my guidance may be a bit more involved, because there is a certain flavor we are trying to achieve while retaining the author’s own voice. It’s a delicate balance.

JR: What’s the state of publishing right now, in particular, Middle Grade? 

SL: It can be difficult for a book—any book—to break out in this time when there is so much entertainment content for consumers to choose from and there are fewer retail outlets for print. Amazon is grabbing more and more market share, but the online site doesn’t encourage browsing. Buyers who shop there usually go already knowing what they want. This is part of the reason best-selling authors remain best-selling authors and new authors have trouble competing. Authors need to partner more with their publisher on promotion as a result.

JR: Probably more important than ever for authors to get involved in the promotion process. What advice can you give to authors?

SL: The best way to learn to write is to read, read, read, and write, write, write.

Remember that you are communicating with an audience and not just writing to satisfy your own ego.

A good concept isn’t enough by itself. Write the entire manuscript.

You may have to land a literary agent before you can land a publishing deal.

Choosing an agent and editor/publisher is like choosing any partner. Make sure there is good chemistry between you.

Be open to feedback but stand up for what is important to you.

Don’t expect the publication of your book to satisfy all your desires or change your life.

Writing the book is only 50% of the work; promotion after publication is the other 50%.

School visits are still one of the best ways to build word-of-mouth.

Support other authors on your way up, and they will (should) do the same for you.


JR: All of that is outstanding advice. In my experience, many authors have been extremely supportive of each other. I think strong relationships are extremely important in that regard. I read that Harriet the Spy was one of your favorite childhood books. I have a few friends who wholeheartedly agree with you. What did you love about it and what other books were among your favorites?

SL: I loved how honest Harriet the Spy was about a kid’s real life—I believe it was one of the first contemporary middle grade novels ever published. To this day I enjoy books in which a well-meaning main character makes a big mistake that causes them humiliation, e.g. The Truth About Jellyfish by Ali Benjamin. As a kid I also enjoyed animal-based fantasies such as Stuart Little and The Trumpet of the Swan by E.B. White, and The Mouse and the Motorcycle by Beverly Cleary. High fantasies such as The Chronicles of Narnia and Lord of the Rings stood out, too.

JR: The Narnia books were also among my favorites as a child. Speaking of childhood, what’s one thing from your childhood that you wish could come back?

SL: My fun-loving dad. He taught me to always remain a kid at heart.

JR: Okay, that answer hit me. If there’s one thing I could wish for from then, it would also be to see my dad. How can people follow you on social media?

SL: For publishing news and comments, Twitter is probably the best bet: @SOLurie.

JR: Before we go, is there anything else that you’d like to add?

SL: Thank you for inviting me to answer these questions. I greatly admire authors—both aspiring and published—and wish everyone a fulfilling journey. Your book could be the one that makes a reluctant reader a forever reader, changes a kid’s perspective, and inspires someone else to be a writer.

JR: Extremely true. Thank you again for taking the time to speak with us today!


Well, that’s it for now, Mixed-Up Filers. I’d like to once again thank Stephanie Lurie for joining us! And if you ever see her listed to speak at a conference, I strongly suggest you go listen!

Until next time . . .

Get to Know Acclaimed Editor and Middle Grade Author Kara LaReau

Kara LaReau is the author of many beloved middle grade, chapter book and picture books. After receiving her Master of Fine Arts degree in Writing, Literature, and Publishing from Emerson College in Boston, Massachusetts, she worked as an editor at Candlewick Press and at Scholastic Press, and via her own creative consulting firm, Bluebird Works. Among other celebrated titles, she edited Kate DiCamillo’s Because of Winn-Dixie (winner of a Newbery Honor), The Tiger Rising (finalist for the National Book Award), The Tale of Despereaux (winner of the Newbery Medal), The Miraculous Journey of Edward Tulane (winner of the Boston Globe Horn Book Award), and the Mercy Watson series. She’s the author of The Infamous Ratsos, a chapter book series illustrated by Matt Myers, and The Unintentional Adventures of the Bland Sisters, a middle grade trilogy illustrated by Jen Hill. Rise of ZomBert, the first in her new illustrated middle grade series, will publish in spring 2020. For more information, visit Karalareau.com

I had the good fortune to get to know Kara when she was the author-in-residence at Hollins University Summer Graduate Program in Children’s Writing, Literature & Illustration
We were roomies in the alumni cottage, where we enjoyed porch sits, her blueberry crumble and many good talks. The students were all wowed by her insightful lectures, one-on-one mentoring, wit, and wisdom about craft.

My interviews for The Mixed Up Files have always been conducted over email. However, this interview was miraculously conducted in person while Kara and I drank coffee and listened to the rumble of the dehumidifier. After all, we were in the Roanoke Valley, where you can swim in the air. But it’s so beautiful–with lush green pastures all hugged by the Blue Ridge Mountains– that you don’t care. Plus, there are bunnies everywhere on campus. It’s easy to see where Alumna Margaret Wise Brown got her idea for The Runaway Bunny. Anyway, I had much to ask Kara. Gosh, it was hard to whittle down my questions since I had admired her for so long.

Why do you write Middle Grade?
I don’t set out to say I’m going to write a chapter book or middle grade. The story comes to me, and that’s when I figure out what it is. That age range was a formative time in my life. When we talk about what is your internal age–that is one of my default ages. And that’s why I enjoyed editing middle grade so much too. It’s kind of like I’m creating the library that I wish that I had had when I was that age.

Do you come up with characters or conceit first?
With the Bland Sisters (Kara’s first middle grade series, The Unintentional Adventures of the Bland Sisters), the characters came first. I wasn’t necessarily intending to write a novel about them. I was just writing a short scene about these two very boring girls. Just for fun. I wrote a little more. They kept speaking to me. In the first book, there’s a moment when there’s a knock at the door. I established they never go outside. This created a moment of extreme tension and curiosity. I wanted to know what could be on the other side of the door to motivate them to open the door. For me, the answer was pirates. And of course, they would have to be lady pirates.

I love it. Why Lady Pirates?
It’s my own feminist sensibility, and I tried to imbue the series with that spirit. I’ve tried to create stories that feature women in roles that are most often attributed to men. In the second the book, The Uncanny Express, they encounter a female magician who has encountered a lot of sexism. In the third book (Flight of the Bluebird), I wanted to parody an Indiana Jones style mystery. I thought it would be a fun to have a female action hero in the vein of Indiana Jones. I’m really interested in subverting gender norms.

Once again, I love it! Why is subverting gender norms important to you?
I’m hoping to portray for boys and girls who are reading these books unsung female heroes. For example, the character of Beatrix in book three is based on Amelia Earhart, Bessie Coleman and Nellie Bly–female pilots, journalists and explorers.

Tell us about your research process.
Each (of the Bland Sister books) was different, and each required more and more research. The first one takes place on pirate ship, and to find out what a ship looked like back then, I looked at books. I also looked at the different roles of pirates, and how they talked to each other. I read Robert Lewis Stevenson, as well as Herman Melville Billy Budd and brushed up on Moby Dick. There are lots of Melville references in the book.

While the first book was a parody of pirate stories and Melville, the second was set on a train and I knew it just had to be a parody of Agathe Christie, particularly Murder on the Oriental Express. I decided to re-read Murder on the Orient Express. While I didn’t have time to re-read all of Christie’s work, I actually watched the entire Poirot BBC series. I watched it over the summer and took notes on all the tropes that I noticed and that I could use. I also researched poisons and disguises. In doing that, I immersed myself in her world and that gave me the confidence to start writing the book.

When I started to writing The Flight of the Blue Bird, I knew that there was going to be an airplane. I watched Casablanca and Indiana Jones films. I was setting the adventure in a real place (Egypt), and there were details about archaeology and the Egyptian culture that I needed to be sensitive to and get right. I found James Allen, a professor of Egyptology at Brown University, and discovered he lived five blocks away from me. He gave me all kinds of fascinating details that inspired me to create the backstory in this book. I also watched documentaries about Howard Carter (the British archaeologist who discovered the intact tomb of Pharaoh Tutankhamun or “King Tut”). To have confidence to move forward, I did all research beforehand so I could immerse myself in it. Jim Allen read my pages, and then gave me suggestions here and there. Then I also decided the airplane would figure prominently in the plot. I found a husband of a friend of mine who is a pilot, and he also read some of my pages to make sure the aeronautical details were correct.

How long do you do research?
About a month or so. Then it usually takes me a month to a month and half to draft and two months to revise.

In addition to your current middle grade series, you have a popular early chapter series, The Infamous Ratsos. Tell us about where you are with that series.

I’m going to start drafting the sixth one. The first three are out in the world. The fourth one comes out next spring. Illustrator Matt Myers is due to start the fifth one next. The sixth one I’m hoping to start at the end of the summer.

Did you originally conceive of The Infamous Ratsos as a series?
After the first book, I knew I had more ideas as adventures. It turned out when my agent sent out the project, Candlewick wanted to know if I had another idea, so they signed up a two-book contract. In each book, Louie and Ralphie Ratso are learning something knew about themselves. They make mistakes just like we all do, but they’re always eager to learn from those mistakes.

Can you describe the books?
In the first book, The Infamous Ratsos, Louie and Ralphie think they need to be tough, and they equate tough with being mean. But that’s not their true nature, and they eventually realize it’s much easier to be kind than tough. The second book, The Infamous Ratsos Are Not Afraid, is about the brothers realizing they are afraid of admitting they’re afraid. They learn that everyone is afraid of something, and that there are a lot of different ways to be brave.

How did you come up with the different themes for the Ratso series?
I ended up watching a documentary about toxic masculinity, The Mask You Live In. The film showed how boys are conditioned at early age by society, by media, even by their own families to adhere to a very oppressive definition of masculinity. My books examine and subvert different characteristics of toxic masculinity: acting like you’re tough, pretending as if you’re not afraid of anything, pretending you don’t have emotions, refusing help, solving conflict through violence, and shunning feminine traits.

You have a new middle grade series. Tell us about it.
The new middle grade series I don’t want to give name since my publisher hasn’t announced it yet. The first book is called The Rise of ZomBert. It’s about a girl and her best friend, who is a boy, and a cat they find, who may or may not be a zombie.

When does it come out?
Spring 2020

What might be familiar to your readers and what might feel different?
There is a lot of humor in it. However, it is very different as the humor is not as on the surface as it is with Bland Sisters, which is very slapstick. It’s for a slightly older audience than the Bland sisters. And it’s darker than the Bland Sisters. It’s definitely has creepy and scary moments.

How are you feeling about it?
I’m excited. I’m starting to see art come in from (Illustrator) Ryan Andrews that’s bringing in moodiness that compliments the text so well.

Can you give a snapshot of the first book?
I describe it as Bunnicula mixed with Stranger Things. It takes place in the suburbs. There is something going on this neighborhood. And the kids slowly figure out what that’s going on. And they seem to be the only ones that know that truth about what is happening.

What is something about you that most people don’t know?
In The Bland Sisters, the running joke is how much that Kale loves to clean. I actually hate cleaning! That was sort of my response to people when people assume that certain characters are based on the author, which Kale is, but only to a degree!

Anything else you want to say?
I want to thank you for taking the time to interview me, and thank my readers for reading my books. I hope they will check out Rise of ZomBert next spring!

Hillary Homzie is the author of Ellie May chapter book series (Charlesbridge, Dec 2018), as well as Apple Pie Promises (Sky Pony/Swirl, October 2018), Pumpkin Spice Secrets (Sky Pony/Swirl, October 2017), Queen of Likes (Simon & Schuster MIX 2016), The Hot List (Simon & Schuster MIX 2011) and Things Are Gonna Be Ugly (Simon & Schuster, 2009) as well as the Alien Clones From Outer Space (Simon & Schuster Aladdin 2002) chapter book series. She teaches at Hollins University Graduate Program in Children’s Literature and Illustration as well as at Sonoma State University, where she directs the Arts & Humanities internships program and teaches communications. Hillary also teaches the Middle Grade Mastery Course and the Chapter Book Alchemist Course at the Children’s Book Academy. She can be found at hillaryhomzie.com and on her Facebook page as well as on Twitter.

Editor Spotlight: Charlie Ilgunas’s Buzz on Middle Grade!

Charlie Ilgunas is Associate Editor at Little Bee Books, which publishes titles for kids 0-12; Little Bee’s new Middle Grade imprint is Yellow Jacket. He earned his BA from Washington University in Saint Louis and a Graduate Certificate in Publishing from the University of Denver, after which he interned at Bloomsbury before moving to Little Bee. Charlie signed his first title as an editorial assistant at Little Bee five years ago. He works mainly on picture books and middle grade.

Hi Charlie, thanks for chatting with us. I’ll say right up front that Yellow Jacket published some of my favorite middle grade titles this year and last: Rajani LaRocca’s delicious Midsummer’s Mayhem, which is getting all kinds of attention, Samuel Pollen’s The Year I Didn’t Eat, about a boy with anorexia, and Melanie Sumrow’s The Prophet Calls, which centers on a girl living inside a religious cult. These are three wildly different middle grade books in subject, theme, and tone, so I’m wondering—what made them all just right for Yellow Jacket?

That selection really speaks to the diverse tastes of our editors here at Little Bee/Yellow Jacket. Some of us are interested in delving into heavier subjects like Samuel’s, some love magical realism and reimagingings of classics like Rajani’s, and some are interested in dropping children into stories that would be completely outside their experience like Melanie’s. And though we’re still guided by our goals of publishing books about acceptance, anti-bullying, awareness, diversity, and empowerment, because middle grade is a fairly new venture for us, we have a lot of freedom to make our case for submissions that may fall outside those guidelines if we see a need in the market for something else or are just moved by a stunning manuscript.

Little Bee Becomes an Indie

In a starred review, Kirkus called Rajani LaRocca’s debut “A delectable treat for food and literary connoisseurs.”

Can you give us a little industry background on Little Bee and Yellow Jacket? I understand Little Bee was recently purchased by its original founders. What’s the relationship with Simon & Schuster? I really love how GLBTQ-positive Little Bee is. How does the partnership with GLAAD work?

Bonnier started Little Bee five years ago, and we launched Yellow Jacket’s first titles last summer. We also have a licensing imprint, BuzzPop, created about a year after Little Bee. Simon & Schuster has been our distributor since we started, and we’ve built a great relationship with their sales team. The last five years have gone pretty well for us—we’ve had such wonderful responses to so many of our books over these years. But because of circumstances outside our control, Bonnier was considering selling Little Bee. Our CEO and CFO offered to buy the company from them, and luckily that all worked out. So now we’re an independent publisher, which has been a pretty exciting transition!

Our partnership with GLAAD came about not too long after I acquired Prince & Knight. We decided we wanted to make a major commitment to publishing LGBTQ+ stories, because we saw how lacking the children’s space was at the time. Now there are so many books out there, especially heavily promoted at stores every Pride month, which warms my heart! So we were looking for partners to help us collaborate on books, developing topics and giving feedback on submissions, as well as assisting us in getting word out about them. GLAAD has been a major help in that regard.

The Buzz on Editing Middle Grade

When I ask people what makes a book middle grade, they usually say something like: a focus on friendship and family. But so many middle grade books are also exploring political activism, gender identity, mental health—subject matter that used to lean more YA. What’s your take? Are kids from 8-12 more sophisticated now? More prepared to handle tougher topics?

Middle grade stories can really go anywhere. It’s my favorite age range, because children are equipped and ready to choose books on their own for the first time and approach them with a boundless imagination, without a lot of preconceived notions and biases. In a lot of ways, the world is so much wider than YA or adult, which can feel more bound by genre.

Friendship and family go part and parcel with many good middle grade stories. It can be hard to sink your teeth into a story without a little heart to ground the characters. And friends and family are constants in all stages of life, even when (and maybe especially when) discussing political activism, gender identity, and such—how a character’s friends and family react in relation to that aspect of their identity. I don’t necessarily think the topics are tougher or heavier than middle grade books from past decades, just a little different. The topics authors are interested in discussing have evolved to engage with the issues facing children today.

Moser’s middle grade is a retelling of the Irish folktale, The Children of Lir.

From Pitch, to Pitch-Perfect

What’s the biggest factor that decides you to give a thumbs up on a book. Is it voice? Concept? What do you consider “fixable” and what isn’t?

Voice, voice, voice! Concept may get me to read a submission quicker, as it’s the first thing I see of any project in an agent’s pitch. But concept without a voice driving the story is just so disappointing. We want to love each submission that we choose to read! Even so, if the writing is of good quality, voice is fixable, but takes a more intense investment than editing story holes and plot elements. You have to read and reread, and delve deep into the heart of the story, and figure out a way to get the author to focus and bring it out a little more in the characters they create.

How hands on are you as an editor with books you acquire? What’s the most intensive editorial project you’ve ever worked on?

It really depends on the project. Some are written so well that I don’t need to do much development work; I can focus on line editing and transitions and such. But some stories need rewriting/restructuring. That has happened more with picture books at this point, since we are newer to acquiring middle grade! Two of the most intense projects I worked on recently, one was a nonfiction picture book about a trans Civil War soldier. The other was a middle grade retelling of “Ali Baba and the Forty Thieves.”

The picture book involved so much outside reading (including a 200-page pension file!) as well as photo research to make sure the illustrator’s work was as accurate to the time as possible. For the middle grade book, I did a lot of research into tenth-century Baghdad—the buildings there at the time, the layout of the city, the clothes people wore . . . all fantastically interesting to investigate!

Lenzi’s novel is a reimagining of “Ali Baba and the Forty Thieves” told from the perspective of Marjana.

What unique talents or perspectives do you think you bring to the table as an editor? Are you as friendly as your patronus, the capybara?

Curiosity has been a huge benefit. If I’m reading about something in a submission that I find interesting and think, huh, that’s new to me! Let’s learn a little more about that, that often leads me to discover something else tangentially related that I can discuss with the author about incorporating, or something we can tie to another element of the story. I’m generally interested in history/nonfiction. So it’s not really a chore to do a lot of outside research to make sure the story we’re telling is accurate—it’s a fringe benefit!

And hah, I like to think of myself like that! Friendly, stoic, and easygoing!

What’s on Charlie’s Wish List?

Are there any under-represented MG genres or topics you’d like to see more of? Any trends that really excite you?

Survival stories! In the purely fictional realm, that is. I’ve been looking for one ever since I got outbid on a fantastic submission. Hatchet was one of my favorite books as a kid. I would love to find a nail-biting survival story along those lines.

Other than write the next book, what’s the most effective thing an author can do, pre- or post-publication, to help boost sales of his or her books?

Find a community of authors (published or unpublished) to engage with and share work with. Either to critique and improve a manuscript ahead of an agent submitting it to publishers, or to just enjoy and talk about with friends after a book gets published. I see it as a much more fun version of networking! Authors are so supportive of each other. Becoming fans of each others’ work has benefits as far as sales, too, because if one author has success with a book, they can blurb their friend’s book, or talk to booksellers about it, or do joint signings, panels, etc., bringing the book to their own fans.

Up Next for Yellow Jacket

Crumbled is the first in a series introducing the hilarious Nobbin Swill.

What do you have forthcoming in middle grade?

Fiadhnait Moser’s The Serendipity of Flightless Things comes out in mid-August; it has utterly amazing writing. I was so blown away by some of the passages, and I still think about them all the time. It’s a retelling of the Irish folktale The Children of Lir. It gets quite spooky in the second half!

Crumbled!, the first book in Lisa Harkrader’s new series, The Misadventures of Nobbin Swill, comes out in late August. It is so hilarious, I was just laughing at my desk the first time I read it. And the follow-up, Croaked! (2020) may be even funnier! I love it, too, because it is heavily illustrated in two-color, and I think the illustrations really add to the humor.

And finally, the aforementioned The Forty Thieves: Marjana’s Tale, coming out in October. Christy Lenzi reimagines “Ali Baba and the Forty Thieves” told from the perspective of Marjana, the girl who keeps saving Ali Baba from the wrath of the thieves after he’s found their treasure. She created a story that adds so much emotional depth to the original, and I can’t wait to get it into readers’ hands!

Thanks so much for your time, Charlie!

You can learn more about Charlie and follow him at:
Twitter: https://twitter.com/chillgunas
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cilgunas/
Little Bee Books Website: https://littlebeebooks.com/