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Interview with Disney Legend, Margaret Kerry, the model for Tinker Bell from the 1953 movie!

By on November 30, 2020   /   Articles  

Hello Mixed-Up Filers!

We are in for a real treat today. Earlier, I was fortunate enough to speak to a Disney legend, Margaret Kerry, who was the real-life reference model for the iconic Tinker Bell from the 1953 animated film, Peter Pan. She couldn’t have been kinder, and sweeter. So, please help me welcome her to our site! 

JR: First of all, I’d like to thank you again for joining us today. I’m honored that you took the time to speak with us. I consider you to be Disney royalty. I was reading your autobiography, Tinker Bell Talks: Tale of a Pixie Dusted Life, and was amazed. You started your career at the age of four, as, ironically enough, a fairy, in the 1935 movie, A Midsummer Night’s Dream from Warner Bros. how much of that experience do you remember?

MK: Oh, I remember. I was a frightened little kid, as you can imagine. I had lost my mother, and was living with two people who were old enough to be my grandparents, and suddenly, the next thing I know, I was going to off to Warner Brothers. And it was amazing to walk through the streets of Warner Brothers. And all of us felt it, because the shadow of the great, huge sound stages fell on you. And Mr. Plaid-pants, that’s what I named him, was telling us what to do, and where to go. We had no idea of half of the words he was using. And one of them was, “They’re shooting.” Well, what does that mean to a four or five-year-old kid?

So, I finally got inside this dark, cavernous thing. I figured I would see this great big monster that they were shooting. You don’t forget things like that. And they separated the mothers from the kids, and took us off the lines, and the mothers were around fifty or sixty feet away from us. We had no idea what we were supposed to do. Well, I didn’t. Some of the kids did, who had been at it a year or two, but I didn’t. And they asked a few of us to step forward, and I didn’t know what that meant. But I looked over and saw that my mother was smiling, so I figured it must be good.

So, I remember it. I remember going to the costume department. That was like going to Star Wars today.

JR: Now, as we just said, you started so young. You hit the ground running at the age of four, and then kept going. Did you realize how unusual that was, or did you just think that’s what everyone did?

MK: That’s a good question. I don’t think I thought of anyone else, because I never saw anyone else. I was locked down, so to speak, with those two wonderful people who had no idea what to do with a four, or five, or six-year-old. And what you do is your work. You do your homework. You read a book, then you go practice. And then, you go to sleep.

JR: Here’s something I learned from reading your book, which blew my mind. I always watched the Our Gang/Little Rascals shorts when I was a kid. I had no idea that you were in them. How was that experience?

MK: Well, this was so interesting to me. (Shows a picture). Here I am with Spanky and Scotty Beckett. It’s always interesting to me, that everything that I seem to do, was the kind of thing that people watched. I could’ve been in some other kids thing, and it wouldn’t have been as famous as The Little Rascals. I was the most surprised person, when I was around forty, and someone said to me, “You were in The Little Rascals?” And I was like, how do they know that? So, everything that I’ve done is kind of iconic.

JR: Absolutely.

MK: And that was by accident, and it was wonderful.

JR: I also read that you really weren’t allowed to see yourself on the screen because of advice given by Shirley Temple’s mom to not let a kid get swell-headed? What was that about? You had to have been disappointed.

MK: I never looked at myself on the screen. Ever since. Never have. You did a job, and either they liked it or they didn’t like it. And if they didn’t like it, they didn’t use it, and that was it. And I never saw the Our Gang comedies in the movie theatres, and you also never knew when they were coming.

JR: You were one of the stars of an early TV series in 1949, called The Ruggles, which if I read it right, was the first network sitcom?

MK: It was the first family network sitcom which ABC did. And we did four seasons of 172 episodes, and we never took a break. We worked right through the summer. And I’m told that the few kinescopes that they show on YouTube are very popular.

JR: They broadcast it live?

MK: Twice. Once for the east coast, and then we would go to dinner, and come back and do it for the west coast.

JR: Amazing.

MK: It was. And that was the big deal. Nobody had ever heard of a cue card at that point.

JR: Was that nerve-wracking?

MK: Well, we worked with two little kids. Jimmy Hawkins and Judy Nugent, and they would look for their script. But Mr. Ruggles did too. We were told when we did rehearsals, that they never went to the full twenty-two minutes. They never did. They went short. Because the way he worked was, he would find a word during shooting, and would take it and be off and running. But, we didn’t know how long it was going to take him. Erin O’Brien Moore did that quite a bit, too.

The pressure was, if you had worked in the movies, and I did not like working in movies. I preferred television. In television, you just do it, and movies seemed to go on forever. But when you worked in the movies, the director was right there. The camera was right there. When you went to work on early television, they were moving around these monstrous television cameras, and the director might be two buildings away in a special booth with his people, and sending information down to the floor manager. But not to you. And quite often, they couldn’t move the mechanics. The microphones or the cameras. And they couldn’t figure out how to move them in time, so they had to stop us to figure it out. And we came to a standstill. But we never knew if it was our fault. And the same way when we did the show. I got fan mail like crazy, which was never given to me. They just didn’t do it.

JR: That’s awful.

MK: But TV was so new, and exciting and wonderful. Well, the wonderful one was when they would change the script around fifteen minutes before we were set to go on. And we would also have to do a one-minute commercial in front of the camera. And you had to memorize it. No cue cards.

The problem with that was, we were always trained to never look at the camera. And you know, if you ever look at a camera, a camera is like a mirror, and you see yourself. And pretty soon you’re thinking, Look at my hair.

And a one-minute commercial for Dr. Ross Dog Food is dog gone good, is the one that they finally decided to get their own announcers to do the commercial. And they always gave you the commercial when you had the largest part in the show. Your character. So, I’m standing there on the stairway, talking about Dr. Ross Dog Food. Well, this was an era, when whatever any woman, female, ever said, nobody paid any attention to. So, my closing lines were: “My dad thinks Dr. Ross Dog Food is best for our dog, and so do I.” But I come up with: “My dad likes Dr. Ross Dog Food, my brother likes Dr. Ross Dog Food, and so do I.” (Licks lips)

The next week, they have Hal Smith, with whom I did all the voices in Clutch Cargo, they had him on as the announcer.

But I loved it. It was exciting. I loved it much better than theater. And people say to me, “I would like to be in show business of some kind.” And I say to them, pick one to start with. Because they are so individual now. Television is so different than making movies. Which is so different than making a video, which is so different from theater. It goes on and on. Or do you want to be behind the scenes. So, have a good idea when you say, I’m going to spend my time trying to get into show business. For example, if you are an actor, and you come to Hollywood, you find a little theater group as fast as you can. But maybe, you’re not interested in little theater. You’re interested in films. I know a man, Michael-Leon Wooley, who does so many voice-overs, he was the alligator in The Princess and the Frog. Anyway, the first time I met him, he excused himself because he had to go home to do around six commercials. I said, “Where?” He said, “In my bedroom. They’ve given me a device and emailed me what I’m supposed to say, the script. And then I record it, and they pick it up in New York.” He said, “Do you realize that I have ten different agents?”

JR: Wow, I had a hard enough time finding one.

MK: Ten!

JR: Okay, let’s go on to Peter Pan. I read that it was one of Disney’s favorite stories, and he had been trying to get it made for close to twenty years before it actually came out. How did you first hear about the project?

MK: I had finished working at ABC. Then we did a big number called, Let There Be Stars, which only ran for one season, which starred Tommy Noonan and Peter Marshall, and from that, the choreographer, Larry Ceballos, got a job, and got put in as the choreographer for a big musical at Fox, I’ll Get By, with June Haver and Gloria DeHaven, and he needed assistant dance directors. So, he asked me. So, I went to work there, and got a phone call from my agent, who said, could you get off work tomorrow? Because they’re interviewing for a little, three-and-a-half-inch sprite. A little fairy who doesn’t talk.

So, I said, “Well, we’re finishing up right now, and there’ll be this big dance number, and I don’t know—”

And she said, “It’s at Disney!”

I said, “I’ll be there 6 a.m. in the morning.” Most people felt that way. They really, really did. So, I got the information from her, and realized I had to do something besides walk in and say, “Hi, hire me. I could do the job.” So, I put together and choreographed quickly, a little three-minute number, of an eleven-year-old boy fixing breakfast, where he drops the eggs on the floor. And I took a little record player, and I drive into the archway that says, Walt Disney, the little, itty-bitty one that they had before, and they had my name on the roster!

They told me where to go, and I parked, and stepped outside, and immediately got lost. And a very nice fellow, who turned out to be one of the animators, stopped me and said, “You look lost.” And he took me to Marc Davis’s office. And Marc Davis was kind enough to fix my record player, and find a plug for it, and I did the pantomime. And then they brought down Gerry Geronimi, one of the directors, and I did the scene where Tinkerbell is on the mirror and looking at herself. And I played her as if she was a nine-year-old/ten-year-old girl, who had never seen herself in a mirror before. So, I don’t know if it was right then, or the following week, when I get a call and they said, would it be convenient for you to come into work the next day?

And I said, “Really?”

And I had never been asked if it would be convenient to come into work, but then Marc Davis asked, “What time would you like to come?” I thought this was a joke, because you know how disciplined you have to be. I said, “Ten o’clock.” And he said, “Fine. Go into hairdressing, get your hair done. You’re going to wear your one-piece bathing suit. It’s on the cover of my book, as a matter of fact. That was my costume. Because really what they needed to see was the outline of my body as I moved and as I twirled, so they didn’t really need to make a costume. So, that’s how I did it, and at the same time, I was working on radio and television shows. Everybody did, because it was at the time when you didn’t really know if television was going to take over for the movies. Of course, they live side by side, but we didn’t know it at the time. And it took nine months to do the different scenes. But, I get a call from Marc Davis who said Bobby Driscoll, who was my brother in the picture I made before I did this, he can’t do the fight scenes. Would you suggest somebody?

So, I said I had the perfect guy, and he would look great in green tights. Roland Dupree, who I had just worked with before this. So, Roland became the live-action model for Peter Pan. Then, I got a call from Marc Davis again. He said, Hans Conreid couldn’t come in to do the live-action work, do you know anyone who could take his place.

I said, “Yes, I do.” So, I cast that film. And they treated me so well. They were wonderful. And still are.

JR: So, you get the part, and you work closely with Marc Davis, the animator from Disney’s legendary stable of Nine Old Men. What can you tell us about with him and the process for creating Tinkerbell?

MK: Well, how we worked it was, we would meet on the soundstage, and he would show me what he had in mind for the scene, and often they had props. And I remember the first time I stepped out in front of the camera, and I said, “Mr. Davis, what do you want her to be? Do you want her to be ditzy like Betty Boop, or above it all like the queen of the fairies?” and he said, very quietly, “Margaret, we want her to be you.”

And I said, “Gosh, I think I can do that.” That was carte blanche to do what I thought she would do, and I always pictured her as a nine to ten-year-old little girl, who was finding out what life was. Who was a groupie for Peter Pan. She wanted all the adventures in life. She’s sort of like me, what’s around the corner? What adventure? And, Oh, I don’t like that, but I’ll fix it and make it work.

One of the main things they liked so much, when you see the movie again, watch her walk. She had a ballet dancer’s walk. Her hands and the things that she does, is like ballet. Cause I’m a dancer. And that’s one of the reasons that Marilyn Monroe could not have done that part, even if Twentieth Century Fox would’ve let her. But she was not a dancer. And it got around that Tinkerbell was based on Marilyn, but she wasn’t. It was little old me.

JR: Speaking of that, I read that your kids actually called Parker Brothers to make them change a Trivial Pursuit answer about that? Because they said it was Marilyn Monroe? I love that!

MK: Yes, my kids called and that got me back into working with the Disney people again. Because I was raising children, and I was doing voice-overs. And you know, I was also the red-headed mermaid in the lagoon. With June Foray, the dark-haired lady, and also the voice of Rocky from Rocky and Bullwinkle. That’s when we both decided that we would go into voice-overs instead of standing around in front of the cameras and waiting. It’s too regimented, and we said, why are we doing this? We could come at one o’clock in the afternoon. Someone hands us a script, and we don’t have to memorize anything. If they don’t like it, someone just cleans up the tape and we start over again, and then you leave. But it was a wonderful time working with that genius, Marc Davis. And he added so many wonderful things to Disneyland, and did Cruella Deville.

And here’s something you don’t know. I’m standing with Alice, his wife, and we were out in front of the El Capitan Theatre, and we had just seen Tinkerbell. And I asked, what was his favorite film to work on? And she said that she really thought it was 101 Dalmatians, because of Cruella Deville, because he designed Cruella Deville. He also got to animate Cruella Deville through that whole movie. Nobody else did it. And he was in seventh heaven, because usually he would create characters, and hand them over to someone else, and sometimes see them go in a direction that he was not pleased with. It was fine, but not what he had intended.

One day, I was talking to Kathryn Beaumont, who played Alice in Alice in Wonderland, and I asked if she ever felt anything unsafe, and she said she always felt 100% protected. And I was a pretty good-looking young gal in a bathing suit, under the lights, and sometimes the crew people could get pretty crude, but Marc Davis would not put up with it. He protected me. That’s who he was.

And his wonderful wife made the costumes for Pirates of the Caribbean. And they weren’t regular costumes. They had Velcro, because some were locked down to the scene they were in. And she told us that she designed them and once they were okayed by everyone, they were going to send them out to have them made up. She told them they had to make up two, and they said, no, just one. Well, one day, she gets a frantic phone call, that something went awry n the Pirates ride and some of the costumes were ruined. She said, “Don’t worry about it, I ordered the second set.”

JR: That’s funny. How often did you get to interact with Walt Disney?

MK: He came over around four or five times over the nine-month period, that I saw, but I wasn’t there every week. And we didn’t have to have the doors closed on the sound stages, so we could keep the doors open and let the warm air in. Because sound stages are notoriously cold. And I’m doing my work, and I look over, and I see a group of about a dozen men, and you could see their shadows because the sun is behind them. And they would talk about something, and then when that group broke up, Mr. Disney would come over and talk to Marc, and the cameraman, and the director, and I was invited into the conversation. And he was just a delight. I never saw him smoke. He was very trim, and a wonderful smile, and I was so juvenile, and in awe, because I was looking at the head of a studio! I was brought up since the time I was four, that the head of the studio was God. And you never saw them, but if they came within a block of you, you curtsied.

I had gone to school with the Disney girls, Sharon and Diane, and I told someone, and evidently, someone told him. And Mr. Disney said to me, “I understand that you went to school with my daughters.”

Well, I was tongue-tied.

But one of the reasons that I went to an all-girls school, was because I could get a permit to go out and work in the movies. You couldn’t do that in a public school. So, he had known this, and stepped back and said, “I’m sure they liked you.” So, that’s when I met Walt Disney and shook hands with him, but never got a picture because nobody had those kinds of phones.

JR: How often do you watch the movie, and what comes into your mind when you do?

Mk: Are you ready for this? I lost my DVD of Peter Pan. And my husband, Robert Boeke, has never seen the film.

JR: Oh no! That can’t be! He must watch it!

MK: Well, our first anniversary will be February 14th, Valentine’s Day, and I said, “We have a date.”

JR:  Are you still very involved with Disney?      

MK: If I want to be, I can, but of course, moving to Sarasota. I don’t know anyone in Walt Disney World. So, I’m mostly doing shows. Celebrity shows, signing autographs, and hopefully making people happy.

JR: You very much are. You’ve mentioned your voice-over work, and were presented with the Ward Kimball award. Can you tell us a little bit about your work with that?

MK: Well, my first husband, yes, I’ve had three husbands now, he was Dick Brown, and he was the associate director at ABC. And because I had done some work for Disney, and he could hear my voices, he got to thinking that animation was the deal. He’s the man who changed the whole direction of animation for television. He had the idea that they needed an adventure show in animation. You know, they were showing the old Popeye shows. Felix the Cat, and the ones they couldn’t show of Betty Boop. And he had a friend who did all the great artwork for Buzz Sawyer, which was a comic strip at the time, and they came out with a new way of designing a series. And they didn’t go into Hannah Barbera or MGM or any of the other companies, so they started their own. They used their own money to finance it, so every episode was on a budget of $3,666.00. Unheard of. In animation, the big cost is animating the mouth, and in an adventure, people are talking, so we had to come up with a new way. So, we had a syncro-vox, where they filmed our lips with white or brown lipstick, whatever went with the character, and then could project it onto the still artwork. Sort of like anime. We did 279 episodes, and did very well with them. We did the Three Stooges cartoon, and Johnny Quest started in our art department. And eventually because of a lot of things that happened, we had fallen on hard times, and Hannah Barbera came in and hired our whole art department, and they did Johnny Quest. It wasn’t called Johnny Quest at the time, but it was the same idea. And it worked, and that made me feel good.

JR: As I mentioned, I started reading your book, Tinker Bell Talks, and as you can tell, I find it fascinating. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

MK: I decided to write sort of a Reader’s Digest book. It has eighty stories in it. 160 pictures. And the longest story is eight pages. The shortest story is one page. So, you can pick it up at any time, and get a complete story, beginning, middle, and end, and of course, I love comedy, so I put comedy all the way through it. And you will find how a child actor got along in Hollywood. The longest story is about the Three Stooges, and working with them.

JR: Now, since we’re a site devoted to children’s books, can you tell me what your favorite childhood book was?

MK: The Secret Garden. It’s the most wonderful children’s book, and Margaret O’Brien played in the MGM movie, and did a great job. I read it to my children, and they read it to their children.

JR: With so many people loving Peter Pan, what was your favorite movie?

MK: Mary Poppins. I see something new every time. And I’m a dancer, and the chimney sweep dance, I still can’t believe. The second is, Peter Pan.

JR: Of course!

MK: And the third is Pinocchio, because after having worked with them, I realize what it takes to make something as great as that.

JR: Before I let you go, you have a fairytale story of your own. You reconnected with a former boyfriend after 70 years and got married this year on Valentine’s Day! That is such an amazing, and heartwarming story. How did that come about?

MK: I was a widow for twenty years. Jack passed away just before we changed into the 2000’s. It was 1999. And I was working and so on, and something told me that I was going to move out of California. People would say, where are you going, and I would say, I don’t know. But I know that I’m moving out of California. And one day, I receive an email from Amsterdam. And it said, would you like to reestablish contact with one, Robert Boeke? You knew each other seventy years ago. Well, my heart melted. So, I sent back, very lady-like, Yes, I would be delighted. A little excited. I got a phone call from him two days later, and he was calling from France. He was there to mark the 75th anniversary of D-Day. A ship was coming to take all these former soldiers from Amsterdam. So, he figured he’d first see Amsterdam. And he’s walking across, and lo and behold, he comes across a store, and I have a picture of it, the store says, Tinker Bell Toys. And he says to someone, “Did I ever tell you that I dated Tinker Bell?”

And there was a wonderful woman, named Sue, and she said, “Let’s find her.”

And we did, and kept in contact, and one day, went up for Mayberry Days in North Carolina, because I was in Andy Griffith, two episodes, and he lived in South Carolina. So, I called him up and said, “Robert, is there any way you can get to North Carolina?”

So, he drove the eight hours to North Carolina, and walked into where we were, and I looked at him, and he looked at me, and it was love at second sight.

JR: That is really amazing.

MK: And we haven’t yelled at each other yet. The best part is, he’s a magnificent cook.

JR: I’m so happy for you. How can people follow you on Social media?

Website: www.Tinkerbelltalks.com 

Facebook 

 

JR: I thank you so much again. This was a real pleasure, and extremely gracious of you.

MK: Before we leave, I have to wish you, Faith, Trust, and a whole bunch of Pixie Dust.

JR: Thank you, and I wish you the same.

MK: You’re a fun person to talk to.

JR: I appreciate that, I’ll have to tell my kids someone said that 🙂 

Well, Mixed-Up Filers, I hope you enjoyed that as much as I did. Thank you again to Margaret Kerry. Please check out her book, Tinker Bell Talks. It is filled with fascinating stories of Disney and old Hollywood. If you go to her website, you can get a signed copy!

Until next time . . .

Jonathan

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Author Spotlight: Christine Kendall… plus a GIVEAWAY!

By on November 27, 2020   /   Author Interviews, Giveaways  

Let’s give a warm Mixed-Up welcome to Christine Kendall, the NAACP Image Award–nominated author of the MG debut, Riding Chance (Scholastic, 2016). Christine’s sophomore novel, also published by Scholastic, The True Definition of Neva Beane, came out in September and was lauded by Lesa Cline-Ransome as “an inter-generational story written with humor, heart, hope—and the power of self-discovery.

Here is a summary of Neva Beane:

Being twelve isn’t easy, especially when you’re Neva Beane. She knows she’s beautiful and smart, but there are so many confusing signals in everyday life about, well… everything, including the changes taking place in her preadolescent body; her relationship with her best friend, Jamila; and her admiration for the social activist on the block, Michelle.

Mom and Dad are on tour in Europe and Neva and her brother, Clay, are left at home with their traditional grandparents. The household descends into inter-generational turmoil and Neva is left with what comforts her most—words and their meanings. While the pages of her beloved dictionary reveal truths about what’s happening around her, Neva discovers the best way to define herself.

And here’s a summary of Riding Chance:

Troy is a kid with a passion. And dreams. And wanting to do the right thing. But after taking a wrong turn, he’s forced to endure something that’s worse than any juvenile detention: He’s “sentenced” to the local city stables, where he’s required to take care of horses. The greatest punishment has been trying to make sense of things since his mom died, but through his work with the horses he discovers a sport totally unknown to him—polo. Troy’s has to figure out which friends have his back, which kids to cut loose, and whether he and Alisha have a true connection.

Q&A with Christine Kendall

MR: So glad to have you with us, Christine. Welcome to the Mixed-Up Files!

CK: Thanks so much for inviting me. It’s a pleasure to be here.

MR: I can’t tell you which of your novels I enjoyed more, Riding Chance or The True Definition of Neva Beane. They are both wonderful in such different ways. I know you wrote Riding Chance because you were inspired by a story on NPR (more on that later), but what prompted you to tell Neva’s story? Were you like Neva growing up? 

CK: It warms my heart to hear you enjoyed both books as I consider them companion novels. They’re both coming of age stories that take place in current-day Philadelphia. The True Definition of Neva Beane isn’t memoir but, like Neva, I paid a lot of attention to words as I was growing up, and I came to understand their power pretty early on.

One of the things that prompted me to write the book is my fascination with how young girls are seen, and how those notions about who they are may or may not align with how they define themselves. This is important because the period in a girl’s life when she moves from early childhood into adolescence is magical, but it can also be very confusing. People read girls differently as their bodies develop and often make judgments about them based purely on their physical selves. I wanted to explore those issues. Once I had the Neva Beane character I thought about other issues she may be confronted with in today’s world. That led me to think about her political awakening and various ways a person can make a positive contribution to their community.

Body Positivity in MG Fiction

MR: Speaking of Neva, it’s clear from page one that she has a strong sense of self, particularly when it comes to her changing body. She feels beautiful in her first bra, a “glorious white cotton status symbol,” and admires herself in front of the mirror until she’s “dizzy.” I love this scene because it’s such a gorgeous display of girl power and body positivity. Was that your intention when you wrote the scene—to encourage tween girls to take pride in their changing bodies? If so, what role does body positivity play, or should play, in MG fiction?

CK: I’ll confess that I wrote Neva Beane’s “mirror scene” based on memory. I was eleven years old and, unbeknownst to me, I was seen admiring myself in front of a mirror by one of my brothers. Well, of course, my brother almost died laughing and I was humiliated. I spent hours trying to figure out why I felt that way before I realized there’s no shame in acknowledging your own beauty. I just hadn’t expected to be seen in that moment by anyone else. I think many young teens have experienced moments like that and I wanted them to know that I see them and their beauty. Body positivity is an issue for boys as well as girls and MG fiction is a good place to explore it.

What’s the Good Word?

MR: As above, Neva Beane is obsessed with words and finds great comfort in them. In fact, her most beloved possession is a Merriam-Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary. What is it about words that fascinates and comforts Neva—and maybe you, too?

CK: Words have power. Neva Beane is fascinated by them because she sees how they can be used to elevate or to wound. I share that fascination and wanted to show how Neva’s ability to analyze words brings her comfort especially when she is in the midst of confusing situations. I also wanted to provide a concrete example of how a person can use words to elevate. Neva chooses that path at the end of the book.

Work to Ride Program

MR: Turning our attention to Riding Chance, I know you wrote the book because you were inspired by a story on NPR about a program called Work to Ride, where inner-city kids work with horses and learn how to play polo in exchange for stable chores. Can you tell MUF readers a bit about the program and how it inspired you? Also, what kind of research did you do in order to make the polo-playing scenes realistic? I’m guessing you weren’t a horseperson prior to writing the novel…?

 CK: You’re right about my not being a horseperson before I wrote Riding Chance. I hadn’t planned on writing a novel. I was simply inspired when I heard the wonderful story about how kids in a mentoring program in Philly won a polo national championship in 2011. It was such an incredible story about what can happen when young people are given opportunities to explore and develop themselves in new ways.

I had to do a lot of research including taking horseback riding lessons, studying the game of polo, going to polo matches, and learning about the powerful bonds between humans and animals. I was fortunate in that there were a couple of horsepeople in the critique group I was a member of who were more than happy to offer constructive criticism. I learned quite a bit and really enjoyed the process.

Themes in Christine’s Books

MR: I noticed that loss and abandonment is a theme in both of your novels. In Riding Chance, Troy is grieving the death of his beloved mom; in Neva Beane, Neva feels as if she’s been cast aside by her best friend, Jamila. Neva also misses her musician parents while they’re on tour in Europe. What is the message you’re trying to convey? Resiliency? Grit? Something else?

CK: You hit the nail right on the head with resilience. I think it is such an important skill for young people to develop. Life can be difficult at times and we need to believe we can work our way through tough situations. One of the ways people develop resilience is by not being afraid to take reasonable risks. We will not always succeed at everything we try but even our failures provide opportunities to learn and to become more confident.

Ch Ch Changes…

MR: Before writing Riding Chance, you were in the legal profession. What prompted you to make the switch from the law to writing? Can you tell Mixed-Up Files readers about your path to publication? Was it a steady canter or a wild Headless Horseman-style gallop? (I know… 🙂)

CK: I like the visual of a Headless Horseman-style gallop especially since my path to publication was somewhat unusual. As you mentioned, I had a career before I became a writer. I worked with large law firms in the areas of  attorney recruitment, associate relations, and diversity and inclusion. I enjoyed my legal career but I got to the point where I wanted to do something more creative. I had always loved books and reading so I took a big step, talk about taking a risk, and left my job to focus on writing.

After about a year of sitting at home by myself struggling with picture book manuscripts I took a writing workshop with an editor from Scholastic, the amazing Andrea Davis Pinkney. She saw my fascination with Philly kids playing polo and encouraged me to use that as inspiration for a novel. It took me three years to research and write and revise but, in the end, she wanted the book.

This Writer’s Life

MR: What your writing process like, Christine? Do you have a specific routine? Writing rituals?

CK: I don’t have a specific writing routine, but I often need something like music to move me from real life into the fictive world. I love jazz so I may listen to that while I’m working. I also read my work aloud as I go along and I write with my whole body. What I mean is I get up and sometimes act out what my characters are doing so I can describe their actions accurately. Needless to say, I write at home. I don’t think people would put up with me in other places.

MR: Finally, what’s next on your writing agenda, Christine? Care to share a bit about your latest project?

CK: I’m working on another MG novel. I wrote a short story a few years ago that doesn’t feel like it’s finished even though it’s been published. I’m expanding that story into a longer work.

MR: Oh! Last thing…

No MUF interview is complete without a LIGHTNING ROUND!

Preferred writing snack? Popcorn.

Coffee or tea? Tea.

Merriam-Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary or Oxford English Dictionary? Merriam-Webster.

Favorite word? Milieu, although I don’t think I used that word in Neva Beane.

Mister Ed or Mister Rogers? Mister Rogers.

Zombie apocalypse: Yea or nay? Nay.

Superpower? Ability to find humor in most any situation.

Favorite place on earth? Mashomack Nature Preserve on Shelter Island, New York.

You’re stranded on a desert island, with only three items in your possession. What are they? A book, my eyeglasses, and a flashlight.

MR: Thank you for chatting with me, Christine—and congratulations on the publication of The True Definition of Neva Beane. I thoroughly enjoyed it, and I know MUF readers will too.

And now…

A GIVEAWAY!!!

For a copy of The True Definition of Neva Beane, comment on the blog–and, if you’re on Twitter, on the Mixed-Up Files’ Twitter account–for a chance to win! 

CHRISTINE KENDALL grew up in a family of artists, the fourth of six children, where everyone studied the piano along with one other instrument. She still feels sorry for the neighbors. They woke up one morning and found themselves living next door to a flute, two clarinets, a French horn, a cello, a set of drums, and always, always somebody on the piano. Christine wasn’t any good on the piano or the clarinet, but she loved writing. Her short fiction has appeared in numerous literary journals and her debut novel, Riding Chance, was nominated for a NAACP Image Award in the category of Outstanding Literary Work for Youth/Teens. The True Definition of Neva Beane is her second novel. Christine lives in Philadelphia where she co-curates and hosts the award-winning reading series, Creative at the Cannery. Learn more about Christine on her website and follow her on Twitter.

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Interview with Fred Bowen and James Ransome about their new book, Gridiron: Stories From 100 Years of the National Football League.

By on November 25, 2020   /   Author Interviews  

Hello Mixed-Up Filers!

Today, I am super excited to welcome to our site, veteran sportswriter, Fred Bowen and award-winning illustrator, James Ransome, to discuss their recent middle grade release, GRIDIRON: Stories from 100 Years of the National Football League, which was released on July 28th from Margaret K. McElderry Books.

Welcome to both of you and welcome to Mixed-Up Files!

JR: To start with, I really enjoyed this book. Fascinating and the illustrations were gorgeous. I’m a huge football fan and still learned things, and even things I knew, it was fun to revisit. How did the idea for this book come about, and how did the collaboration between the two of you develop?

James: I was watching a football game about six years ago when one of the announcers stated that the 100th anniversary of the NFL was coming up. The anniversary seemed like a perfect idea for a book for young readers. I began researching the history with the idea that I would write and illustrate the book.  After juggling deadlines for other book projects, traveling and teaching, I realized years had passed and I still hadn’t found the time to write one sentence, let alone a book. That’s when I realized I’d needed a writer. Fast forward to one year later when Fred and I met at a conference in Maryland. Right away I knew, that as a sportswriter, he’d be the perfect person to write the manuscript. I discussed my idea with him and we agreed to collaborate.

Fred: Thanks for the kind words about Gridiron. I am very proud of the book. As James said, the book was his idea. He approached me at a conference about 5-6 years ago after we appeared on a panel of children’s writers and illustrators who were talking about their work. I described my Fred Bowen Sports Story books for kids 7-12 that combine sports fiction, sports history and always have a chapter of sports history in the back. I also talked about my weekly kids sports column for the Washington Post.

After the panel, James told me about his idea of a history of the NFL in time for the league’s 100th anniversary (2020) and said he thought I was the person who could write it. I was very interested. I thought it was a great idea and I was thrilled to work with James. I have known about and admired his work for years.

JR: I think the collaboration definitely paid off. How much did you work with each other on aspects of the book?

Fred: Quite a bit. For example, we discussed the various players and events that should be included in the book. James reviewed several of the early chapters and gave me some great advice. He said, “Tell more stories.” Later in the process, when I was getting a little lost in my concerns of what my editor might like to be in the book, James said, “Fred, write the book you want to write.” That advice was very clarifying for me.

James: Well, my wife is a writer, so I have learned that it’s best to give them the space they need to create. I shared only my overall vision for the project with Fred. He later sent me a first draft of a sample chapter. I did emphasize that I wanted to be sure the text reflected the pace and dramatic moments of the game. Aside from this initial discussion, Fred then organized the chapters and came up with all the wonderful stories. So, it was a thrill to read the manuscript, enjoy his narrative that weaves the history into the present.

Have to ask, which team do you each root for and what one moment from those teams is your favorite?

James: I am a Miami Dolphins fan, from 1972 the year that the team went undefeated through the entire season and went on to win the Super bowl. And I should mention that they are still the only football team in the NFL to hold this distinction. A highlight for me was probably the Monday night Football game when the Dolphins played the Chicago Bears in week 13. The Bears came into the game undefeated and Miami with quarterback, Dan Marino, was the only thing standing in the way of the Bears from going undefeated. As the experts predicted, the Bears did go to the Super bowl and won, but the Dolphins defeated them on that Monday night 38 to 24. It was the only loss of the season for the Bears team.

JR: That game pains me in more ways than one. Hated the Dolphins, and hated it even more because of how angry I was that the Jets didn’t draft Marino. 

Fred: When I was growing up in Massachusetts, the members of my very large family (7 kids) were all New York Giant fans. I remember watching the weekly Giants game at one o’clock on Sunday with my father and older brothers and then going out to our yard to play touch football. I spent much of my early years dreaming of being a wide receiver such as Del Shofner or a defensive back such as Jimmy Patton.

Later in the 1970s, I rooted for the New England Patriots with quarterback Jim Plunkett and running back Sam “the Bam” Cunningham. Now, I follow the Washington Football Team for my Washington Post column, but I don’t really root for them. I am proud, however, that I wrote a column that the team should change their name “Redskins” way back in 2005.

JR: Which is the one lost opportunity football moment from your teams that you wish they could get back?

Fred: One of my earliest sports memories is watching the 1958 NFL championship game between the Giants and the Baltimore Colts. I remember my older brother Rich was heartbroken that the Giants lost the game and so was I. I suppose I would like to change the outcome of that famous game, but telling the story of Johnny Unitas and the Colts’ stirring comeback and 23-17 overtime win made a great chapter 7 in Gridiron. So maybe it turned out all right in the end.

James: Well, that’s an easy one. It has to be Super Bowl XVII when Washington beat the Dolphins 27 Miami 17. And Dan Marino did not get his Super Bowl win.

 

JR: Weird, I was okay with that one. 🙂 I loved the format of the book and the breaking the sport into four quarters. As I mentioned, I’m a huge football fan, and still was surprised to learn some facts from the book. What were the most surprising things that each of you learned while working on it?

James: For me it was learning more about coach Paul Brown. As I was working on that chapter, I continued to discover information that was beyond amazing on how he transformed the game into what it is today. It was so astonishing to me that I asked Fred to incorporate additional information to the text, which he did. I just wanted readers to know as much as we could squeeze in on about the contributions Paul Brown made to football and why he is the only person a team (The Cleveland Browns) is named in honor of.

Fred: Separating the book into quarters was James’s idea and it really helped with the organization of the book.

Two things surprised me the most during my researching and writing Gridiron. First, how small-time and disorganized the NFL was during its early years. No one kept statistics. Reports of the games rarely appeared in the newspapers. Teams made their own schedules and often played a different number of games. I describe some of this in the chapters of Gridiron. The first NFL championship game in 1932 (Chapter 3) was played in a Chicago ice rink. Only 31 of the 81 players selected in the first NFL draft in 1936 (Chapter 18) ever played in the league. The first pick – Jay Berwanger – chose to become a sportswriter and later a businessman.

The other thing that surprised me was how difficult it was to decide what to include in the fourth quarter of the book. It is much easier to see what events and characters of eighty or sixty or even forty years ago were important and “historical.” It is much more difficult with recent events.

 

JR: That’s incredible that the first pick chose not to play football. Fred, you started your career as a lawyer. How difficult was it to make the transition from that to writing for children, and is there anything from your previous career that you’ve found useful in your new field?

Fred: Surprisingly, being a lawyer is very helpful for becoming a writer. First, lawyers have to read and write a lot. Second, and probably most important for a project such as Gridiron, is that lawyers are used to taking a lot of complex materials and making them shorter and more understandable. So for Gridiron I read more than forty books and numerous articles and turned all that material into twenty chapters that are each about 650 words long that kids and the adults in their lives will enjoy.

JR: James, I read that you studied filmmaking before changing paths. What components of the former have helped with your illustrations?

James: Filmmaking has helped me with storytelling and pagination. When I read a manuscript, I think of it as a film. I zoom in and out, I see pages as scenes, I think of the angles and or viewpoint that best express the feel of the text.

JR: Can you both describe your process in your projects?

Fred: Specifically, for Gridiron I first had to decide what topics to write about in the four quarters and twenty chapters of the book. That is what I call the arc of the story.

Then I had to research each chapter and decide what story to tell within each chapter. For example, in Chapter 10 about the first Super Bowl I decided I wanted to tell the story of Max McGee, probably the most unlikely Super Bowl hero ever, and not just the play-by-play of the game.

Next, I outlined each chapter and decided what stories and details to include and what to leave out.  Then came the writing and deciding exactly how to tell the stories.  After that, I read what I had written out loud.  If the chapter was not easy to read I would change it until it was easy to read.  It was a lot of work, but it was also a lot of fun.

James: I start off with reading the story a few times while making small doodle sketches. Then I make a dummy book and tape down all the text down on the pages. Then I create sketches that are drawn in next to the text. Once I feel I have a good version of the story, I send the dummy to the publisher. After 2 to 3 rounds of making sketch changes, I move on to drawing out the images on tracing paper working the same size of the final layout. These are then transferred to the paper that I am going to paint the images on. The painting process takes approximately three months to complete.

JR: What advice can you each give to someone looking to break into your respective fields?

James: I think there are two important skills you need; one is picture making. What I mean by that is how well you put figures in a room or space. But how you compose the picture with figures is just as important. And in children’s books, both facial expressions and body language are equally important.

Fred: Read widely. One of the fun things about being a writer is that you meet lots of other writers.  Every writer I have ever met is also a big reader.

It is also important to put yourself in a position where you have to write. So if there is a newspaper or a literary magazine at your school, join it. Don’t wait to be “inspired” to write. In addition, use every time you write anything, from a paper for school to an email or even a text, as an opportunity to practice your writing.

Finally, don’t try to figure out what might be popular. Write what appeals to you and what interests you.  Your enthusiasm for the subject will show through in your writing.

JR: Great advice from both of you. Now, if you could each tell me, what’s your favorite book from childhood?

Fred: Growing up my favorite books were the Chip Hilton sports books by Clair Bee, a Hall of Fame college basketball coach. The 23 fiction books followed Chip through his junior year at Valley Falls High School through his senior year at State (his college). Chip was the star quarterback in football, high-scoring forward in basketball and the top pitcher and hitter in baseball.

I loved those books so much my fourth grade teacher, Sister William (I attended Catholic school), let me read them under my desk during class. I think Sister William also knew that reading the books would keep me quiet!

The books sometimes mentioned the history of the games. In one book, Bee mentioned how in the early days of basketball there would be a jump ball after every basket. This fascinated me and probably led to my interest in sports history and history in general.

By the way, I own all 23 Chip Hilton books. They are in a bookcase behind my desk in my home office.

James: A Fly Went By by Mike McClintock, illustrated by Fritz Siebel

 

JR: Best football movie?

James: Brian’s Song 

JR: Good movie. 

Fred: I was a movie reviewer for local newspapers for 2-3 years early in my writing career. It was great fun and taught me to write for a general audience. I don’t remember any really good football films. But I enjoyed All the Right Moves, Heaven Can Wait, Remember the Titans and Friday Night Lights, although the book version of Friday Night Lights was much better.

JR: No love for The Longest Yard? Something people would be surprised to learn about each of you?

Fred: Although I write about sports I have a lot of interests other than sports. For example, I am a huge jazz fan. I have hundreds of CDs as well as Spotify playlists of such jazz favorites as Miles Davis, Tommy Flanagan, Bill Charlap, Gerry Mulligan, Chet Baker, Ray Brown and Scott Hamilton to name a few. I often write my books and columns with jazz playing in the background. And I will sneak the name of a favorite bass player or saxophonist into a lineup or roster in my books.

James: I think people would be surprised to learn how large a role music plays in my art making. Jazz is on 80% of the time while I’m working. But I also enjoy rap, blues and soul/ R&B. My all-time favorite band is Parliament /Funkadelic and my favorite rap group is Public Enemy. Favorite solo rapper goes to the one and only Biggie Smalls. Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers is my top jazz band and Muddy Waters is my favorite blues singer. Nat King Cole, my favorite jazz singer. I’d love to illustrate a book about any of those subjects.

 

JR: What are you each working on next?

James: I am illustrating a book about jazz saxophonist Sonny Rollins. Before that I just completed the companion to Gridiron, Hardcourt: A 75 years History of the NBA. It has the same formatting, and page count and another book that was so much fun to make pictures for. Now I’m hoping that Fred will write a book about the hockey league.

Fred: My next book is scheduled to come out in the fall of 2021. It is a soccer mystery and will be the 24th book in the Fred Bowen Sports Story series for Peachtree Publishers. We are still working on the title of the book.

James and I will be teaming up again for another sports history book. Hardcourt: Stories From 75 Years of the National Basketball Association is scheduled to be published in 2022. I’m very excited about that book.

JR: Looking forward to that, though I want to see a baseball one! How can people follow you on social media?

Fred: My Twitter handle is @FredBowenBooks. Anyone who is interested in my books and Washington Post columns can visit my website: www.fredbowen.com. I always enjoy hearing from people who like my books and columns.

James: My Facebook page is https://www.facebook.com/james.e.ransome

And Instagram@ jransomillustr

Website: www.jamesransome.com

JR: Okay, let’s end with a couple of football questions. This is a weird year in sports. Based on what you’ve already seen, who’s your early pick to win the Super Bowl, and please don’t say the Patriots.

James: Well, you don’t have to worry that I am going to say the Patriots, being that I am a Dolphins fan. I think the Chiefs will return and they will be playing the Seahawks. It does not matter as long as Brady does not get in with the Buccaneers.

JR: Amen to that.

Fred: This year is going to be unpredictable because of the coronavirus. But I think you have to look at the Baltimore Ravens, Kansas City Chiefs and Seattle Seahawks as Super Bowl contenders so long as their quarterbacks stay healthy. One other team that might make a run is the Los Angeles Rams. Aaron Donald is a major force in the middle of their defensive line.

JR: Lastly, a serious question. as a frustrated fan for around forty years. Will the Jets EVER get better?

Fred: Absolutely! As I write this answer the Jets have a record of 0-6. They have to get better. There is no place to go but up for the Jets.

JR: I wish that were true. 

James: This is not a good question for a Dolphin’s fan. For all your readers who don’t understand, the Dolphins, Patriots, Bills and the Jets are all in the same division. Only one team can win the division and the other teams can only hope for a wild card to enter the playoffs. But only the team with the top record will advance to the playoffs and if they are lucky, the Super bowl. But your record has to be the top of all the remaining teams in all the divisions in your conference. The Jets and Dolphins have a long rivalry history, so I don’t root for them.

JR: Well, I AM rooting for the Dolphins this week, so the Jets can continue their tanking.

I thank you both again for joining us, and everyone please make sure to go out and get a copy of GRIDIRON!

 

In the meantime, on behalf of everyone here at Mixed-Up Files, I want to wish all of our readers a very Happy Thanksgiving! We are grateful for all of you.

 

Jonathan

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