Welcome to October’s STEM Tuesday author interview! This is where you get a behind-the-scenes look at what it’s like to research and write a STEM book.
This week we’re chatting with Penny Parker Klostermann, author of several books including The Spider Lady: Nan Songer and Her Arachnid WWII Army, illustrated by Anne Lambelet.
Andi Diehn: I had no idea that spider silk was used for scopes! How did you come across this fact? How did it lead to a full book?
Penny Parker Klostermann: For years I visited a website named Wonderopolis (ed note: sadly, Wonderopolis shit down in July 2025). Each day there was a kid’s question or “Wonder of the Day.” It was a great way to learn a little bit about a variety of topics. One particular day, the question was, “How did spiders help the Allies win World War II?” That caught my attention! The article explained that spider silk was used as crosshairs in scopes and, like you, I had no idea and wanted to learn more.
Nan Songer wasn’t mentioned in the Wonderopolis article, but it wasn’t long before I found old newspaper and magazine articles mentioning her work. She wasn’t the only person who harvested silk from spiders for the war effort, but she took the process to a whole new level. It was Nan that led to a full book. I knew I’d come across an “unknown and unsung hero” and that her story had to be told.
AD: I love how Nan’s process for finding the best silk for the job really reflects some of the principles of the scientific method and engineering design process – gather information, track your research, change your variables, etc. Even though Nan didn’t formally study science, how did her work reflect her scientific approach to her passion?
PPK: When I was working on the discussion guide for this book, I was reminded once more of how Nan met the many challenges she encountered along the way. I actually put together several scenarios based on the scientific method, so I thought I’d share them in answer to this question. (This activity didn’t make it into the discussion guide, but it can be downloaded from my website.)
Think Like a Scientist
Nan was a self-taught scientist. Scientists use a process called the scientific method to solve problems. Once you’ve read or listened to the book you know that Nan found solutions to problems she faced while raising spiders and harvesting their silk for the war effort. Here’s how the scientific method helped Nan find solutions.
She identified the problem.
She asked herself questions to find out as much as she could about the problem.
She formed a hypothesis. A hypothesis is a smart guess or a prediction about a solution.
She tested her hypothesis through experimentation.
She decided if her hypothesis provided a solution. If not, she repeated the process.
Think like a scientist.
Put yourself in Nan’s place. Consider the problem and answer the questions that led to the solution.
Problem: Nan nudged a spider over the edge of a ruler but only gathered a small amount of silk.
Why was this a problem for Nan?
What questions do you think she asked herself?
What hypothesis did she form?
Explain the experiment that led to the solution.
Solution: A thread of silk trailed behind the spider. Nan caught it with the tweezers, attached it to a wooden frame, and turned the frame. The strands on the frame were a mess! But Nan couldn’t believe how much she reeled before the spider quit spinning!
Problem: The experts thought raising spiders in captivity was unlikely since spiders eat other spiders.
Why was this a problem for Nan?
What questions do you think she asked herself?
What hypothesis did she form?
Explain the experiment that led to the solution.
Solution: Species that might eat their roommates lived in jars. Others lived in cabinets with screen doors.
Problem: Progress was slow. Sunlight shone on her workbench for a short time each day.
Why was this a problem for Nan?
What questions do you think she asked herself?
What hypothesis did she form?
Explain the experiment that led to the solution.
Solution: She experimented with her own lighting system — a lightbulb in a popcorn can did the trick.
Problem: After testing silk from more than fifty species, Nan settled on two that spun strong, smooth draglines. The green lynx and the yellow garden spiders. But the adults of these species die in the fall soon after they lay their eggs.
Why was this a problem for Nan?
What questions do you think she asked herself?
What hypothesis did she form?
Explain the experiment that led to the solution.
Solution: After gathering one frame of silk, Nan knew she would have heavier strands any time of year.
Problem: The silk from her spiders wasn’t fine enough for crosshairs in some gunsights.
Why was this a problem for Nan?
What questions do you think she asked herself?
What hypothesis did she form?
Explain the experiment that led to the solution.
Solution: The needle slid to the spinneret, and she reeled a single fine strand.
Problem: The silk from her spiders wasn’t heavy enough for crosshairs in bombsights.
Why was this a problem for Nan?
What questions do you think she asked herself?
What hypothesis did she form?
Explain the experiment that led to the solution.
Solution: Nan constructed a gadget to reel and twist silk.
AD: Sound affects how a spider spins silk? That’s amazing! What were some of the things that surprised you the most as you researched Nan Songer?
PPK: I was surprised by so many things and sound affecting the spider as it spins was one of them. It’s all about vibration and how the spider reacts. Does the vibration mean food? Does it mean danger? Something else? I can’t pretend to know what a spider thinks but they spin up to seven different kinds of silk for different purposes so when I thought about it, it made sense that vibration might cause them to spin a different kind of silk.
It was so interesting to me that the spider would continue to spin as Nan turned the frame to pull silk from the spider. I learned a spider attaches silk to an object like a branch or another strand of its web or something else. Then the silk is pulled from them as they crawl away or drop. But given that spiders are so sensitive to sound and movement, I was surprised that Nan’s presence didn’t frighten them. In her papers, she said she felt they became accustomed to her as she fed them and spent her days in the spidery.
Maybe the thing that surprised me the very most was the amount of research Nan needed to do in such a short time in order to supply silk for all the different scopes. When she reached out to spider experts and crosshairs manufacturers they couldn’t provide guidance. War seemed imminent and Nan realized it was up to her. She’d already discovered that not all spiders spin strong, smooth silk so she set out to test silk from over fifty species. Her papers described the male and female from every species and the size of silk each spider spun at different ages. She tracked the life span of each species. She made notes describing eggs sacks from every species and observed females to learn from them as they spun strong silk for their egg sacks. She determined when females were ready to lay their eggs and placed them in a hatchery so that she could track the ages of the spiderlings once they emerged from the egg sacks. She compiled all this data while providing samples to crosshairs manufactures. She noted their feedback and sent more samples until they could confirm the different sizes of silk needed for each scope. She fed her spiders by capturing and attracting an assortment of insects so that every spider of every age was satisfied.
Seriously! When did the woman sleep? And on another note … HOW did she sleep with up to ten thousand spiders living in a room in her home. Let’s face it, some of those spiders ventured out, right?
AD: The illustrations are gorgeous – I love how light plays such an important role in the illustrations, just as it does in the spinning of silk. Were you involved in the illustration process?
PPK: Anne Lambelet did an amazing job! She was perfect for this book. This is a great example of an editor and art director knowing what will make the best book! I have them to thank for choosing Anne.
I was involved to a small degree … more of a fact checker. Since I knew Nan’s story so well, it was beneficial for me to provide feedback for accuracy. The feedback I gave was minimal. Here are a couple of examples. When Nan studied spiders as a girl there was a spiral notebook on her desk. I checked and spiral notebooks weren’t around when Nan was young. There was also a pop can amongst the garbage Nan set out to attract insects. I’m old enough to remember that pop used to only come in glass bottles, so I caught that, also. A spider expert weighed in on the spiders to make sure their body parts were accurate. I really enjoyed poring over the sketches and art and reading what the spider expert had to say.
AD: In your author’s note you talk about getting to read Nan’s own writings – how did this help with your book?
PPK: Oh my! I had sold the manuscript and gone through several rounds of revisions with Carolyn Yoder before finally finding Nan’s great grandson who had kept her papers. It was Nan Songer’s daughter’s ex-husband’s daughter that put me in touch with the great grandson. Tracking down Nan’s writings was as complicated as it sounds. The genealogy sites weren’t helpful. I turned to “people search” sites. It took years and many phone calls to random people that might have lived at the same address as anyone connected to Nan Songer. I called people in Oregon, Arizona and California during the process.
The search was certainly worth it! Getting to know Nan by reading her words was like an exclusive interview. There were many details in her writings that weren’t in the newspaper and magazine articles. Knowing how Nan felt as she tackled each part of this complicated task was so important. Before, the story didn’t have as much emotion because I had to imagine what Nan felt. After reading her words, it was all fact. The kinds of facts that make readers connect with the subject of a biography.
AD: What do you recommend for any kid who’s interested in spiders or science?
PPK: When I sign my name in this book, I also write “Rise to the Challenge!” To me, that’s the message I send to kids who are interested in spiders or anything science related. Just in the world of spiders, over fifty thousand species have been discovered, and experts suspect there are another fifty thousand species yet to be discovered. This is true of science in general. Scientists constantly uncover new information. I suspect many of them, like Nan Songer, were interested in science as a kid. So, if a kid is interested there are discoveries waiting for them. “Rise to the Challenge!”
Penny Parker Klostermann is the author of Spider Lady: Nan Songer and Her Arachnid WWII Army, Merry Christmas, Dear Mars, There Was an Old Dragon Who Swallowed a Knight and A Cooked-Up Fairy Tale. She spent her childhood in the beautiful Crystal River Valley near Redstone, Colorado. She now lives in Abilene, Texas, The Storybook Capital of America, where inspiration is all around. Penny loves all kinds of books — especially very silly picture books that make her laugh and inspiring nonfiction books that tweak her curiosity. She’s been known to hug her favorite picture books and seriously hope that her books will gain huggable status too.
Andi Diehn has written over 20 children’s science books, plus a picture book on mental health called MAMA’S DAYS from Reycraft Books. She works as a children’s book editor and marketer at Nomad Press and visits schools and libraries around the country to talk about science, poetry, mental wellness, and anything else kids want to know! Andi also works as a bookseller at her local indie in Vermont – The Norwich Bookstore – and lives in rural New Hampshire with her husband, three sons, and too many pets.
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